DRM and how it relates to a buisiness

Okay, so I recently heard about this cool game I thought I might like- it was called 'game dev tycoon'. Having almost no money to spend, eight dollars was actually a little steep for me to buy a game with no info on it(and I have a massive distrust of demos- sometimes the bad part lurks just out of sight), so I tried to pirate it.

It was at this time that I found out this game has the most annoying DRM ever- it makes the game unfun for people who pirated the game. Now, I know what you're thinking, it's the developers right to defend their business, but hear me out. Now, doing some more research into this DRM, I found that they released a 'cracked' version of the game with this annoying peice of DRM installed, and that it had been released the day it came out, with the stated intention of seeing the traffic for the pirated version.

At this point I burried my head in my hands and sighed.

Look, say what you will about DRM, it's intention is to SLOW PIRATES DOWN. If you aren't doing that, then you might as well not make it. You're trying to put impatience against cheapness, and the best way to do that is to slow the pirated version down as much as you can. But sometimes, a company- like this greenheart place- will entirely miss the point. They commented they saw '97% of gamers pirated the game'. Well no fucking shit, because you gave it to them for free at the same time. And that's ignoring the second group you decided to fuck over: those with no money to spend. I know it's a bit much, but you do have to remember that some people DO pirate games to see if they're worth buying, or so they can play it until they can afford to buy it. I've done both. Any fun game will have a small portion of it's pirated versions convert into purchases. But only if it's fun.

By making a DRM that doesn't delay it's release and makes the game unfun, you ensure that pirates can get it as easily from pirate bay as they can from you, and that means they will choose pirate bay. Add to that a mechanic that makes the pirated game unfun, and you've cut your sales by... well, most of them.

Anyway, what do you guys think?

Yeah, that was a real jerk move.

I pirate because I refuse to pay $20 more than the rest of the world for new games. And there are cases where I have bought up to three copies of the same game, which I no longer have the disc for. I think it's only fair that I still be allowed to play a game that I have paid the developers twice over for. :/

Some interesting news, it seems that the concept of GDT is ripped off another game for the mobile devices. Talk about a double standard.

What? Somebody succeeded in making a game require that you pay them money without installing invasive software? Heresy and evil! Obviously they should have used SecuROM instead.

it makes you have to pay, but it also makes you not want to pay. It bugs players who might have bought it, and they did basically the worst.

You didn't pay, so they're under no obligation to make sure your product works. In fact, they have good incentive to prevent it working, which they did.

I understand that if you might have paid otherwise, there's a chance that the overly sensitive prospective buyer might not buy. You didn't give any indication that was what you were going to do, correct me if I'm wrong, so I don't see where your objection has anything to do with your situation in particular. And this is far from "the worst." These people had a sense of humor about it and didn't install spyware. There's been much, much worse, and I'm pretty certain you've had it happen to you, as have I, given where we all came from.

I mean, let's take a step back here. A game developer puts debilitating piracy into their game to show pirates what their actions can do to their profit margins - then the pirates complain about being shafted by in-game versions of themselves. The irony dripping off this situation is so thick I'm going to go take a shower in it.

It's not the worst, but my complaint there is only one of a few. For example- as I said, they released it the same day as their game. Meaning they made it readily available for pirates on the day it came out. Say what you will, but the intent of DRM is to STOP pirating, not to make it unfun.

Think of it this way- there are three types of pirates.

Those who don't have the funds(me) and want to try a game before buying it

Those who have the funds, but are unwilling to pay for something they know next to nothing about

Those who are pirating because they want the game, but don't want to pay

The first two groups are likely to buy your game if it's good- but only then. The third group will only buy the game if they don't have another option. Say, for example, a cracked version hasn't been released yet. The first two will wait, because they are waiting to see quality, the third won't, because he has no reason beyond being cheap. None of these groups are likely to buy if you release an unfun version of the game onto pirate bay the same day it comes out.

(Oh, and how about this- it's a facebook game. I've watched videos, read about it a little- it's basically a facebook game, with all the problems inherent to that. Hell, there's a shit ton of invisible numbers that determine how well your game does regardless of what it looks like it's doing, with very hard set rules for what makes a good game in a specific genre, none of which are ever told to you)

Yes, I'm aware of that classification. I wrote a rather lengthy college paper on the issue. Yes, this might also deter the potential buying types if they couldn't glean how the game worked, didn't get the hint, and refused to wait for reviewers. I'd also like to point out that other successful games have used this approach before: http://www.gamesradar.com/serious-sam-3-bfe-fights-piracy-crabs/ http://www.gamesradar.com/dark-souls-developer-has-nasty-shock-early-players/

And also, "making pirating unfun" would indeed contribute to stopping it, no?

This one a) was poetic about it and b) was trying to make a point by ensuring the game got pirated. They're just trying to make sure lots of people see what they're trying to say, on behalf of the whole industry. I dare say the entire reason they made the game in the first place is to say: If the devs never get paid, it's no fun for anyone at all. They can't make games, and you can't play what they don't make.

So, yes, DRM can be obnoxious. I'm with you there. But they're trying to tell you something important, and all you can do is complain.

Game companies don't care about the details and technicalities about who pirates things. You could be poor, or good intentioned or whatever. They don't care, they want to make as much money as they can.

Also, look a bit more. I can almost guarantee there's a torrent for the game without anti-piracy.

I'll just say this. The makers of GDT have just given one big finger, and as a result I bet they've lost a lot of potential customers permanently. Real good business move, at least EA makes some decent games.

Jesus fuck, you two. I'm not saying that they need to help pirates, I'm saying they need to keep themselves from making 90~% of their users pirate the game. Because that's the number they got. Can you really tell me that ISN'T a failure for them?

It's not about stopping pirating, it's about keeping the players from pirating- that's a different thing. The only way to stop pirating is to make noone want it, because people will always find a way. What your job is is to ensure that a maximum number of players choose to buy your game rather than wait, or choose to buy the game because they enjoyed it. Neither of these tasks is helped by releasing what they did when they did.

Seriously, don't just say "Well making pirating unfun helps stop it" because it doesn't. It helps stop them from being taken seriously as a publisher because instead of getting a bunch of pirates wandering around telling their non-pirate friends about this cool game they found they have a bunch of pirates looking at the game critically, seeing it's flaws, and then pointing them out to anyone who comments on it. And this is not a game that can stand up to that.

You're making the same mistake the game devs did- assuming that people who don't want to pirate will buy. Because, shock and awe, most people who tried pirating the game didn't go and buy it- they complained about the game, deleted it, and moved on to other things, BECAUSE IT DIDN'T MAKE A STRONG IMPRESSION.

Assuming that people who have already pirated the game is going to buy. If pirates already have a particular game procured by pirating, they're not just going to go out and buy the game. They already have it. The point of pirating is to obtain something without paying for it.

I pirated Skyrim. I plan to BUY Legendary edition on Steam when it comes out. Never doubt the power of achievements.

Also, there are quite a few games now that lose their multiplayer aspect when illegally downloaded. So please, don't just assume that when they have the game, that's it. :/

I pirated Minecraft.

Then I bought it.

I pirated FO:3

Then I bought it.

I pirated FO:NV

Then I bought it.

Shall I go on, or are you willing to accept that a group I happen to be a part of exists?


Pirating consists of two groups- those who are merely cheap, or intent on stealing, and those who do not have the money, and would buy it if they could.

Oh, and if you feel like getting all high and mighty? Ever buy a game used? Congratulations on fucking over the game-developer! I buy my games new, and they get profit from me. They get none from you.


Seriously, Patches, don't make assumptions based on a limited sample size- you probably just suffer from a kind of confirmation bias. IE: I think this way, so I primarily encounter others who think this way.

Yes, albeit a group that is smaller than the number of people who pirate a game and then don't buy it. Companies don't care either way.

Let's face it, DRM's have just sucked overall, moreso for the people who actually bought the game than the pirates. Just take a good, long look at SimCity, and then tell me that's the right way to go with games.

and crim, that's where the other half comes in- slowing the pirates down. A LOT of people buy the game due to impatience, and that's as good a reason as any for the developers.

cursiveWrit wrote:

I pirated Minecraft.

Then I bought it.

I pirated FO:3

Then I bought it.

I pirated FO:NV

Then I bought it.

Shall I go on, or are you willing to accept that a group I happen to be a part of exists?


Pirating consists of two groups- those who are merely cheap, or intent on stealing, and those who do not have the money, and would buy it if they could.

Oh, and if you feel like getting all high and mighty? Ever buy a game used? Congratulations on fucking over the game-developer! I buy my games new, and they get profit from me. They get none from you.


Seriously, Patches, don't make assumptions based on a limited sample size- you probably just suffer from a kind of confirmation bias. IE: I think this way, so I primarily encounter others who think this way.

The point being made here is that just because you do it doesn't meant that the rest of the gaming community is going to follow your lead. Awesome, perhaps you're an example of only a dozen or so people. I am NOT getting high and mighty over pirating and used games, what I AM saying is that (most) pirates are not the benevolent kind of consumers you're portraying them out to be. At the top of my head, I can name about ten people that pirates without buying. I'm not the one getting high and mighty here, Joural. Don't make assumptions on me, or anyone else for that matter, based on, what? Your arrogance? You probably suffer from being a douchebag.

Jesus christ why do neither of you guys pay attention to the ENTIRE UNRELATED FUCKING POINT I HAVE TRIED TO MAKE 16 TIMES.

And Patches? You see that 'and about twelve other people' bit? That's you going right back to doing what I said not to- IE: making assumptions about a group you are not part of. Many of my friends IRL pirate to get a taste of the game, Jokie does it, that's about seven people right there in a VERY limited sample. In, fact, let's look at this thread- five commenters, two of whom do it. My, that's 40% right there, I guess we should make an assumption from that, huh?

Patches, I swear to fuck, if you make another comment about how I'm CLEARLY wrong because not everyone who pirates then buys their games, and continue to ignore the other point(Which I have made in almost EVERY OTHER POST HERE) I am going to jam a spork down your throat.

cursiveWrit wrote:

Jesus christ why do neither of you guys pay attention to the ENTIRE UNRELATED FUCKING POINT I HAVE TRIED TO MAKE 16 TIMES.

And Patches? You see that 'and about twelve other people' bit? That's you going right back to doing what I said not to- IE: making assumptions about a group you are not part of.

I am not making assumptions about your group. I am not saying your group only has twelve people (though to be honest, I'd be surprised if it even had that much people), what the point being made is, your group of peers is, more or less, a minority. Le gasp, imagine that. And how wonderful that you and your friends pirate to just try out the games. Clearly you're all a bunch of well endowed and respectable people with steadfast morals and shining benevolence. I get it, you have friends and tea parties. That's irrelevant. I don't care how you and your friends pirate just for the sake of trying it out and buying it later. And just because you have people that you find doesn't mean that people all over the country does it too - people get together when they find shared interests. That's common. You can find that phenomenon at churches, conventions, and D&D websites. But on a national scale, how many of those people you think exist compared to the people that don't do any of those things? Christianity is becoming a minority, more than half of the population, I'm sure, hasn't played D&D, and how many people do you think pirate things without buying the actual product later?

Quote :

In, fact, let's look at this thread- five commenters, two of whom do it. My, that's 40% right there, I guess we should make an assumption from that, huh?

Like said before, people congregate where there are common interests. Of course you'll find people who agree with you, but that's not just it either. Odds are, people who play games often or even pirate at all are going to comment here. That's where their interests lie. We must also take into consideration of how many people visit the forum on a regular basis and how many of those people actually post in these sections. An atheist/non-Catholic can walk into a church and get bombarded about how there are more Catholics in the building than there are atheists, so obviously there are more Catholics in the world than atheists/non-Catholics. That's what you're doing. The only people that are going to care about a thread on pirating are probably people who pirate things.

Quote :

Patches, I swear to fuck, if you make another comment about how I'm CLEARLY wrong because not everyone who pirates then buys their games

Citation please? I never recall saying you're totally wrong on all grounds, but you do seem pretty keen on ignoring all that I have to say. I said that the majority of pirates do not buy products from their producer after they already pirated the item. That was the gist of what I said, that's all I ever really said, and your first reply to me was that "You're high and mighty, you're making assumptions, and you suffer bias." There is absolutely NO grounds whatsoever for you to be that callously disrespectful to ANYBODY. Especially in response to something as innocuous as what I initially said.

Quote :

I'm saying and continue to ignore the other point(Which I have made in almost EVERY OTHER POST HERE) I am going to jam a spork down your throat.

Keep up the attitude Joural. If you want to act like this with me, fine, whatever. I can bite back. But I do not want to see this with anybody else. That's a warning.

Okay, I'm done here.

-seconds that motion-

I'm also a person that may pirate a game then buy it...

Pirated Minecraft.

Then bought it. Mainly for Technic and Tekkit though...

Pirated Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

Bought it.

Of the games I pirate, the ones I want to continue playing are the ones I buy. Obviously I don't play the games I don't wanna play.

However, releasing the pirated version as a simpl;y retarded version just doesn't work.

For example, Company A may have a game (A) they want to make a profit of. It's a pretty good game. They release a pirated version with all the retardation contained, making it virtually impossible to access more than a few key features of the game. Nobody wants it, because what's the point of a game which for all you know is either incomplete or just sucks balls?

Company B, on the other hand, has a game (B) just as good, and releases the pirated version. Except this time, it works; singleplayer works for HALF of it, and I do mean half - the other half is not available. Multiplayer is not available. But all of the game mechanics are there. You get tantalising hints of customisation, and so forth. Sounds like a demo, right? Exactly.

You would find many would buy game B rather than Game A. It's kind of the same situation with Minecraft, except cracked has everything buy connection to premium accounts. That being said, Premium has mods like Tekkit, Technic, and you can connect to the wide multiplayer experience that is pretty epic. The PREMIUM multiplayer experience.

There's a pattern though; most games that you pirate and the later buy have expansions and DLC's to them, such as Oblivion. To the extent of my knowledge, you can't effectively add expansions onto some pirated games, and it's an overall easier and smoother process to just buy the game and add the extras to them. Is it even possible to pirate expansions? I don't even know.

And when the purchasable product has higher quality and more content than the piratable product, then yeah, buying the item seems a lot nicer. But when the difference is nil? Most people would rather just get the game without paying for it.

...

Patches, seriously, just shut your face. You don't know what you're talking about, you're making assumptions, and you're ignoring every argument that is made against you. You took one sentence to go from 'I didn't say that' to 'I'm saying that right now'. Noone wants to talk about this anymore because you turned this into the most retarded argument EVER.

Also? Interesting fact- DLC is less difficult to pirate than a full game.

Joural, you'd best just drop your attitude right now. I'm not ignoring anything - as far as I'm aware, I have acknowledged everything relevant to the topic and I have addressed possible alternate scenarios (instead of just agreeing with everyone - that's how discussions work!). If you cannot remain civil whatsoever, and if you're going to keep on acting like a child, I'll have to do something about it. And I will.

Further:

cursiveWrit wrote:

Okay, I'm done here.

If you say you're going to do something, do it. Don't just sit back and bitch.

On another note, thank you for that piece of information on DLCs.