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If I recall it was more Lenin who decided that because no one in Russia wanted to be in the war and the October Revolution kept them in it. By the November Revolution Lenin seized power and offered a treaty to the Germans so they can get out of it.
Which gave them an opportunity to concentrate on the White Army in their counter-revolution and kept the pretty piss-poor Russian army from being butchered.
The Midnight Stalker Refugee
Posts : 44 Join date : 2012-11-20 Age : 32 Location : I live In Kentucky.
On a slightly unrelated note, is it irritating to everyone else how many generals commit the same stupid mistakes in Russia? It happened in the Great Northern War if I remember correctly (but I could very easily be wrong there, it's been a while), Napoleon, Hitler. I'm no military strategist, and I understand ego and pride cloud these kinds of judgments, but it seems like Napoleon "redesigned-Cannae-at-15" Bonaparte should've picked up on the fact the Russians were letting the elements do their work for them. Even the Russians didn't use common sense when they invaded Finland in 39-hey, maybe our tanks won't move very far over these dirt roads and woodland trails.
Hitler never stood a real chance, but it's interesting to see what kind of mistakes undo the huge armies and leaders in history. Fun to think about how far Alexander the Great, Napoleon, etc, would've gotten if X hadn't happened.
It doesn't particularly help that Russia is an immense landscape that can stretch logistics to the point they break. In the presented cases, the logistics and resources present in Russia for the Russians are as determining factor as the weather was. And blaming these failed campaigns on the weather itself is sort of covering a tiny aspect of the story.
In World War 2 itself all the Russians needed to do to recover from the casualties at Stalingrad and Leningrad was to issue another wave of draft slips and choke the Germans with their dead. The Russians may have had the shittier weapons, but they could make up for it in mass-production. The Germans (and in Napoleon's case: the French) simply can't sustain the casualties that the Russians can take.
And when it comes to surviving Blitzkrieg tactics the Russians could produce the munitions needed to render those offenses null. Which is to say: an unbelievable number of mines, rockets, and other high explosives.
Surprise Frequent Poster
Posts : 1417 Join date : 2011-10-21 Age : 30 Location : land of trees and ice(Canada)
Also, the Germans were obsessed with taking cities. If they'd just burned them when they passed them by the Russians wouldn't have stood a chance- most of the German casualties happened fighting in or around cities they had no reason to try and take. The Russians don't have an advantage unless you give them one, Germany. Stop walking into logistical nightmares.
The Midnight Stalker Refugee
Posts : 44 Join date : 2012-11-20 Age : 32 Location : I live In Kentucky.
Another mistake Hitler made was his blitzkrieg was basically an adapted version of Napoleons tactics, only with tanks and planes instead of horses and Cannons. Dumb I think, Plus anybody with a bit of sense can see that a war during the Russian Winter is a Dumb idea
ron User
Posts : 475 Join date : 2011-11-12 Age : 26 Location : Tejas.
you sure that's not LA? Kidding. Still War in a Russian Winter is a bad idea, especially if you have long Supply lines like Hitler and Napoleon had. No food and supplies is a bad thing and with the Russians Scorched Earth policy it only made things worse for both of them.
Shade Common Poster
Posts : 557 Join date : 2011-09-29 Age : 79 Location : Whereverfore the booty lies, there do I follow
I believe it was Leningrad where, when they heard the Germans were approaching, the Russians ordered the civilians of the city to start digging trenches.
For days on end, without taking off the days off that even the Soviets gave to them. They picked up shovels and dug. Just. Fucking. Did it.
I can't imagine anything like that happening these days. I'm not saying I'd enjoy living in the Soviet Union by any means, but it just amazes me the kinds of stories that come out of that time period in history. The man with the most confirmed kills of all time, Simo Hayha. Audie Murphy. The guys who grabbed shovels and carved out trenches for Leningrad. Erwin Rommel. World War II fascinates me.
The Midnight Stalker Refugee
Posts : 44 Join date : 2012-11-20 Age : 32 Location : I live In Kentucky.
President Ron Paul looked out across the city with a worried expression. It was burning. Rioters had taken control of half of the town, destroying everything in their path. News had came in that morning at breakfast that the rioters had taken Georgetown. The National Guard was doing what it could to hold them back, but they simply did not have the resources to keep the entire town down. It seemed as if the entire population were working against them. President Paul had been advised to evacuate the city, and he had been escorted to the top of the White House to await Marine One. Leaving the city felt wrong, like a captain abandoning his ship, but it seemed like they were all out of options.
An eerie fog engulfed the city. Or it was soot from the fires. At this point, it was hard to tell. The mist glowed a dull orange, like a cloudy sky at sunset. It was noon. The air was orange in every direction. Had the fires consumed that much of the city? Another effect the haze had on the President and his entourage was that it muffled whatever sound might be around them, causing a uncomfortable silence. There had not been traffic for weeks now, but there were still people. Wherever they were, they could not be heard.
From out of the mist, the muffled sound of helicopter blades slowly approached. Taking a deep breath, President Paul bent down and shielded his face as Marine 1 slowly touched down. A secret serviceman to the left President put his hand on the President's back, gently directing him to the craft. Glancing back at the the city quickly, President Paul sighed and boarded the helicopter. As they lifted into the sky, they rose above the fog.
From above the clouds, the President could see much more. Monuments poke out of the fog below like mountains peaking above the clouds. Breaks in the smog allowed a better view of what was happening on the ground. From above, President Paul could see figures dashing through the streets. The streets were littered with debris. Burning piles of trash dotted the urban landscape like lamps. Men could be seen fighting over indiscernible objects.
As they continued along, the first sign of the National Guard appeared. In a small gap between the cloud cover, the President could see a burning APC surrounded by several camouflaged men. Something had rendered the vehicle inoperable. Further on, several other National Guardsmen could be seen firing upon a small crowd gathered in the street in front of them. This sight shocked the president, who gasped as he watched one of the civilians launch a small burning object at the soldiers. Upon striking the ground, the object exploded into a ball of fire, igniting one of the National Guardsmen.
The next shock came as they approached the Capital Building. The disorder had started there when protesters had turned violent a week before and drove congress out of the building. The building had burnt for days, but the fire had already went out. The shell of the building still stood, it's windows and edges charred black. Somebody had hung a pure black flag from the Statue of Freedom on top of the dome. The dark flag fluttered erratically as Marine 1 flew past.
As they helicopter reached the edge of the city, a bright light came from the sky and slowly descended on the city behind them. The President's heart skipped a beat as he looked over his shoulder to watch it descend in front of the capital building. For a moment, the air seemed to pull back toward the city as if the capital was sucking them back in. Within the next moment, an explosion rocked the earth.
A fireball rose from the place that the light had descended. As the ball of fire rose, the sound of the explosion reached Marine 1. It was a low rumble, like the sound of an approaching thunderstorm. Panicked, President Paul looked over at the secret service agent next to him, who's face communicated the same horror he felt within himself.
"We didn't order that, did we?" President Paul inquired.
"I hadn't heard anything of it, sir" the agent replied. The fireball climbed into the sky, forming a mushroom cloud. Within seconds, the shock-wave reached the helicopter. Marine 1 was thrown in the air like a plastic bag, tossing to the side as the pilot desperately tried to regain control. The President tightly gripped his seat as the helicopter continued to spin downward. As they continued their descent, the rotors failed, turning them into a rock in the air. Below them, the Chesapeake bay rapidly got closer until they struck it, then all went black.
President Ron Paul looked out across the city with a worried expression. It was burning. Rioters had taken control of half of the town, destroying everything in their path. News had came in that morning at breakfast that the rioters had taken Georgetown. The National Guard was doing what it could to hold them back, but they simply did not have the resources to keep the entire town down. It seemed as if the entire population were working against them. President Paul had been advised to evacuate the city, and he had been escorted to the top of the White House to await Marine One. Leaving the city felt wrong, like a captain abandoning his ship, but it seemed like they were all out of options.
An eerie fog engulfed the city. Or it was soot from the fires. At this point, it was hard to tell. The mist glowed a dull orange, like a cloudy sky at sunset. It was noon. The air was orange in every direction. Had the fires consumed that much of the city? Another effect the haze had on the President and his entourage was that it muffled whatever sound might be around them, causing a uncomfortable silence. There had not been traffic for weeks now, but there were still people. Wherever they were, they could not be heard.
From out of the mist, the muffled sound of helicopter blades slowly approached. Taking a deep breath, President Paul bent down and shielded his face as Marine 1 slowly touched down. A secret serviceman to the left President put his hand on the President's back, gently directing him to the craft. Glancing back at the the city quickly, President Paul sighed and boarded the helicopter. As they lifted into the sky, they rose above the fog.
From above the clouds, the President could see much more. Monuments poke out of the fog below like mountains peaking above the clouds. Breaks in the smog allowed a better view of what was happening on the ground. From above, President Paul could see figures dashing through the streets. The streets were littered with debris. Burning piles of trash dotted the urban landscape like lamps. Men could be seen fighting over indiscernible objects.
As they continued along, the first sign of the National Guard appeared. In a small gap between the cloud cover, the President could see a burning APC surrounded by several camouflaged men. Something had rendered the vehicle inoperable. Further on, several other National Guardsmen could be seen firing upon a small crowd gathered in the street in front of them. This sight shocked the president, who gasped as he watched one of the civilians launch a small burning object at the soldiers. Upon striking the ground, the object exploded into a ball of fire, igniting one of the National Guardsmen.
The next shock came as they approached the Capital Building. The disorder had started there when protesters had turned violent a week before and drove congress out of the building. The building had burnt for days, but the fire had already went out. The shell of the building still stood, it's windows and edges charred black. Somebody had hung a pure black flag from the Statue of Freedom on top of the dome. The dark flag fluttered erratically as Marine 1 flew past.
As they helicopter reached the edge of the city, a bright light came from the sky and slowly descended on the city behind them. The President's heart skipped a beat as he looked over his shoulder to watch it descend in front of the capital building. For a moment, the air seemed to pull back toward the city as if the capital was sucking them back in. Within the next moment, an explosion rocked the earth.
A fireball rose from the place that the light had descended. As the ball of fire rose, the sound of the explosion reached Marine 1. It was a low rumble, like the sound of an approaching thunderstorm. Panicked, President Paul looked over at the secret service agent next to him, who's face communicated the same horror he felt within himself.
"We didn't order that, did we?" President Paul inquired.
"I hadn't heard anything of it, sir" the agent replied. The fireball climbed into the sky, forming a mushroom cloud. Within seconds, the shock-wave reached the helicopter. Marine 1 was thrown in the air like a plastic bag, tossing to the side as the pilot desperately tried to regain control. The President tightly gripped his seat as the helicopter continued to spin downward. As they continued their descent, the rotors failed, turning them into a rock in the air. Below them, the Chesapeake bay rapidly got closer until they struck it, then all went black.
Subject: Re: RPP Chat Thread 
Tue 04 Dec 2012, 5:16 pm
