Dungeon Keepers: TSW OOC Thread

Wow, that would have been a REALLY good plot. Gosh, now I'm bummed out that it didn't come into fruition...

Indeed. That would have been a wonderful finale.

What about intermediate plans? Such as how to introduce the Horsemen and Anti-Keepers, if at all?

I actually meant for it to be unremarkable. Such as, a Keeper finds a human with some sort of otherworldly essence to them and it turns out to be War, who walks with a cane because of a limp in his leg passed over from when Sophist embedded holy crystals in it.

Would any of you be willing to join a new DK if I made it on this forum?

http://roleplayerguild.com/forum.php?s=3b1c1c3f2b9372c2d9ea59358bec91c5

It's far more active than even the Sporum, so I think the RP could be successful over there. Unfortunately, my Summer Vacation for me is drawing to a close in a week or two, and I'd rather not create a RP before I get back to school and figure out whether I'll have the time to stay active enough in it or not. But on the bright side, that does leave us (assuming you guys want to be a part in this) some more time to plan.

It seems like a good place. We definitely need to plan, though. We could co-GM it.

Good idea. If one of us takes a vacation or something, we'd always have the other, and on a forum that busy it would be nice to not run the thread alone.

As in for planning, I think we need to figure out the setting before we do anything else. Three options that I instantly see are Outremar in the past, an entirely new world found through the portal, or Earth. While I at first thought that having Earth set back in the 1800s was a better idea than modern times, I'm not so sure now. I had difficulty obtaining maps and other information and various places that dated back to then. What are you guys' thoughts?

I'll definitely take a look at any Dungeon Keepers you guys make.  Outremar in the past (A whole new continuity) might be a better option.  More freeform, far fewer limitations. If you do this, definitely use an older version of the OP, though make sure to edit the history. if you use my Sporum version.

I personally prefer Earth, but as mentioned that produces limitations. As you mentioned about maps, places haven't changed too much since then, unless you happen to live in Europe. If we do set it in Earth, like we did here, we can't have it in modern times because then the Keepers, who have mostly been in no more than 17th century technology, would be completely out of place. 1800s is a good time IMO.

A new world would require a lot of careful thinking in the planning stage, as we need it to make sense and be good for playing in. But it would allow for continuity with what happened in the Fifth Age than going back in time.

Going back in time in Outremear might be good for the roleplay. Personally, I'd feel rather displaced by disrupting continuity. But if I can get over that, it will be a fresh start.

What we really need is a plan. Nobody there will have played the prior Ages except for us, so we can't have too great a leaning on back-story, although at the same time if we just throw away the back-story it will seem bland. We need a setting. We need an entry for the Keepers. We need some event to keep them engaged. We need a finale.

Well, I'm not quite sure which time period would work if the setting was Outremar a long time ago. Like I was saying for Earth though, the 1800s posed a challenge because it's hard not to be rife with historical inaccuracies, especially with a precise year and an undefined rate at which time progresses for us. The advantage I see with this taking place on Earth is that everyone is already far more geographically aware of Earth's features than they ever would be with those of a fictional world.

I think Keepers would actually thrive on modern day Earth, even though the technology would be a bit of a shock to them. To compensate for the adjusting they'd have to make and to keep things moving quick enough, the Keepers should be weakened, but still in their favored form. I don't know what kind of plot we could use, though. Perhaps cav's could work.


I personally favor the idea of the portal leading to a whole new world that has never seen otherwordly beings. Later on, the Ripper could perhaps open wormholes to other universes, and thrn anything from aliens, gods, or ghosts could pour through. Plenty of plot potential if we expanded on this basic idea.

If we create a whole new world, we need to start thinking. I think one primary consideration would be their technological level. I like the idea of somewhere around the Industrial Revolution (or equivalent), although I am open to ideas. Just not something technologically inferior to Fifth Age Outremear.

We also need to consider the geography. One super-continent, like Outremear? Several continents, like Earth? Or something completely different, like floating islands or one solid landmass covering the entire planet? Personally, I think the first two are better.

The obstacles created by having vast oceans (or emptiness, with floating islands) mean it's harder to have player interaction, which makes me say we need to have this based on one continent. To make this world truly unique, I came up with what I think is an original idea; a solar system without a sun, at least not one as we know it. The center of this system could be a massive gas giant, composed partially of water vapor, with no nuclear fission going on, with a core that radiates unimaginable amounts of light and magic. Enough to pierce through the untold of gas and still shine brightly. Occasionally, the water vapor clouds could get thicker or thinner in parts, resulting in the equicalent of eclipses and solar flares.

Incredibly unrealistic, I know, but the core would be the source of all magic in this entire little pocket universe. Naturally, the Ripper would seek to corrupt it, which would allow for a plotline to emerge. Well, I quite like the idea of a terran world orbiting that 'sun' as a setting. Of course, I could just be crazy, in which case feel free to let me know.

While I think a technology level comparable to Outremar's, perhaps we should also consider the influence magic has on this world. The natives could use it to fly, cook, build things, have increased longevity, and all sorts of things. I think that could be tge basis for what is a truly alien culture.

Sounds like a brilliant idea! Something suitably spectacular. Much more interesting than Earth. It doesn't have to be realistic. It's magic.

For the people, this would increase the incidence of magical humans (or other species, although I recommend sticking with humans as the primary sentient race). It will mean that humanity is much more of a challenge. Different races would use magic differently. This would be the defining characteristic of each race of humans. Some would focus on telekinesis, others fire, others physical augmentation (ie. strength), etc. This means there would be magical creatures as well.

For our Keepers, this would make growth back to Keeper-like power very quick, which is good. However, we need to be careful not to unbalance this so that a magic path becomes grossly superior to a strength path. Put an emphasis on the ability to use magic to, instead of storing as magical power, develop as physical strength. Other than that, it will be business as usual for Keepers.

This layout would also mean there could be other worlds to explore. Maybe not in the first instalment, but in future we could expand the idea of travelling to other worlds.

But what about the geography, and the nature of this planet. Big planet or little planet? Watery or rocky? Plate tectonics? Strong tidal forces? Magnetic field? Volcanism? Is it big enough to have a variable climate? Once we do that, we can determine the kind of continent we want. Alternatively, we can think of the kind of continent we want and then work backwards.


Between my last post and now, I had been considering doing Earth, 2012, December 21st (or was it 22nd?). Nothing happens, except Keepers get introduced into the world, unknown to humanity. Gives purpose to the timing, but the risk with doing a 2012 Mayan Calendar Apocalypse (or, in reality, New Mayan Long Count Year) scenario is that it is clichéd. For that reason, I like your idea better. Might not be entirely original, but it is novel enough to gain interest.

For reasons I already explained, I think it should be a small planet so there can be more player interaction. Since this planet is geologically active, it would have a magnetic field, albeit a weak one. To explain while such a small planet could be geologically active and have about a much gravity as Earth, the very core of the planet could have a portal to the system's 'star'. That both keep the planet from freezing over and losing its magnetic field like Mars did, and create a way for the Ripper and others to go to the center of the star.

I'm thinking there should be plenty of seas, straits, bays, but not many huge oceans. Deserts, savannahs, mountains, volcanoes, wastelands, jungles, ice caps, and enchanted forests would be good to add variety and possible homes for all sorts of different Keepers.

I'm unsure of two things, though. Firstly, how will our Keepers arrive? Shall they appear really high and fall wherever (or something similar) like we did in this RP? I quite like the idea of a spectacular beginning, inspired by the Cornucopia in the Hunger Games. A strange portal the like of which humans have never seen before could apper in the middle of a city and begin growing. Their leaders arrange a welcoming ceremony for their visitors, only to have a horde of rogue constructs and evil keepers charge out. Our Keepers could either participate in the bloodbath that will happen as the more aggressive keepers fight each other and the humans in an attempt to sieze the city and its resources, or flee from the scene and not risk getting injured.

The second thing is how the planet's unusual star will affect weather patterns. I'm thinking that the flora will become adapted to the frequent solar flares, but the animals have to be very careful not to be exposed to them, since they can last hours and are much worse than the ones on Earth.

To resist solar activity the planet will need a strong magnetic field. Life on the planet, including animals, would be innateloy resistant. To explain geological activity, we need not some otherworldly explaination. Tidal forces from our 'star' would be sufficient enough. Perhaps a collision with another planet/planetoid early in its life to set magma in motion. It could also have a magical field, which would act in a similar way to the magnetic field but more in interest of protecting from magic (and also creating a dynamic flow of background magic across the planet.

Travelling to the star by beings like the Ripper could be done through interplnetary space. I think putting a portal to what is in essence the Sun inside the planet is an ill-advised idea in terms of planetary engineering.

Plenty of variety in terrain, without major oceans? I was leaning towards something like Outremear, with one supercontinent with ocean covering most of the rest of the planet. I agree with the variety. Do we want a supercontinent, or the planet being a single landmass so that continents can not be defined? I like a supercontinent bordered with, in effect, endless ocean, partly because it makes map-making more straightforward, partly for a greater concept of form to the world, and also so that all the Keepers are closer together. Deciding on the layout of the world is important. I'll happily draw a nice and detailed map once we can decide on the big picture.

As appealing as your second entry suggestion sounds, there are two issues with it. One is that it doesn't help for late entrants to the RP. Second is that it makes dungeon keeping more difficult as all the Keepers will be clustered nearby which makes quietly developing an empire difficult. We don't have to fall from the sky. Just spontaneously appear around the world.

All the geographic features I describes were keeping in mind that I liked the idea of a smaller planet, but I see now that a normal-sized one would work fine, be simpler, and allow for everything you listed above. I suppose it soesn't matter because a geologically active planet would have a magnetic field, but would that even be necessary in a system without solar flares or a star with nuclear fusion?

As in for the map, I was hoping you'd make one.  I can agree that one continent is ideal, but you said the word 'supercontinent'. Outremar was only about the size of Australia, and that was fine. Something as huge as Pangea would leave too much space between us.

I can see the problems with the idea for a start I had, but you still haven't wholly convinced me it'd be bad. I think lack of interaction went in hand with starting weak to ruin this RP, so having interaction early on strikes me as something we should somehow achieve. Latecomers to the RP could appear in whatever is left of the city after the fight, or could appear elsewhere having had something strange happen while they were in the portal. I don't know; we could make it work.

As in for everyone starting close together making it difficult to quietly build, I don't necessarily see that as bad. That kind of thing minimalizes interaction. Besides, humans that are actual threats and much more magically attuned would greatly hinder a Keeper's ability to lay low anyways. Still, nothing would stop you from fleeing far from that city, though those who don't spend as much time running and covering their tracks would get to start building sooner on.

If scale is a problem, keep in mind that the planet itself can be smaller, thusly making an Australia-sized continent a supercontinent. A smaller planet also means a bit less gravity, allowing higher jumping, easier flying, and perhaps even floating structures without a great amount of magic.

Yeah, a few posts above I tossed out the idea of a small planet and how we could make it work, but BBeast basically shot that down when he pointed out the difficulties in mapping a small planet with mostly land. Still, I suppose it could work, but having everyone able to jump ten feet up into the air seems a bit silly to me.

I don't know, but at the end of the day I'm not sure planetary size matters all that much.

This is a different universe, so physical constants can be changed. In the introduction of Earth to Dungeon Keepers, I recall it was described as larger than Outremear, yet there had been no mention about differences in gravity. I also recall Outremear as being described as a super-continent, which is why I used the word (although my memory could have confused that with something else, such as super-volcano, perhaps, over time). I also feel super-continent implies that it is the one single landmass on the planet, not one of several. But these are not as important. Something around the size of Outremear, give-or-take, would do fine, yes. A small planet may work since we can say gravity is different in this Universe. Or we can have lighter gravity as you suggested. That might be fun.

You described the 'sun' as producing effects similar to solar flares. Thus, we need a magnetic field or some equivalent. Not hard to do, really. As this isn't sci-fi, we just need to say that it has one, and only if asked, as it isn't essential to know for most people. At the moment, anyway.

OK, we can have the entry be at a localised point. I agree that the interaction would be very beneficial to the RP. It would stimulate inter-player reactions, creating wars or alliances early on. Whatever that city is, it should probably be a hub of transportation so we can have a variety of places to go. Perhaps, during the ensuing battle, the entry portal destabilises (maybe due to a blast of misdirected magic) and splits, creating temporary portals to places across the continent, allowing for quick spread to various different terrains, not just restricted to the biome we start in. We can't expect all our Keepers to flee across the entire continent unaided simply to reach an environment suited to their character. They can still flee by foot or air or sea or teleportation if they so choose and are able, of course.

How about the shape of our landmass? I'm thinking something vaguely tear-drop shaped, like Africa or South America, so it can cover a range of latitudes and thus a range of climates. There should also be lesser lands scattered across the planet, but those would be small to medium-sized islands, mostly volcanic, and generally insignificant and not the focus. It's just that a world devoid of any land on most sides seems blank. What about you? Any visions for the shape of our land?

Small atolls and reefs would be fine. A tear-shaped landmass is also good, though I think we should avoid making it narrow enough to have a chokepoint between the north and the south. My advice is to label some details like rivers, mountain passees, and so on. Also try to keep in mind things like plate tectonics and rain shadow.


And when I said the sun could produce effects like those of flares, I really just meant an abnormal amount of energy would shine through the star's clouds over at the planet (which really needs a name, by the way).

I feel bad for not paying utmost attention to your posts now.

You're fine; we've sort of left you out of this conversation, for which I apologize. One thing I've been meaning to ask you is what should become of the Horsemen in whatever plotline we design. You left them pretty mysterious, which was cool, but that also leaves me knowing little of their personalities or goals. Would they be likely to assist the Ripper? Do they even have plans, or do they behave erratically and get enjoyment out of interfering with the affairs of Keepers and mortals? Are they demigods, demons, magical entities created for a specific purpose (like the Weaver), or something else?

Keep in mind that we don't have to answer any of these things about the Horsemen in some elaborate storyline, and I realize that you may not have even thought about these things yourself. Still, it would be nice to at least know what we're going to do with these characters.

I fully intend to pay attention to details like plate tectonics, geographical features and rain shadow. And of course it won't be too narrow. This is a continent we're talking about. Shall we have polar ice-caps? And shall the continent stretch from north to south or just from north to around the equator (or south to around the equator)? In my mind there shall be polar ice caps, although not too big, and the continent stretches from one pole to somewhere past the equator.

Even if a magnetic field is not needed to protect the planet from solar activity, it would still come in handy. At the least, it can be used for compasses. We might also find it could be used to help repel large and menacing fields of energy. Besides, a magnetic field is not too unlikely for a geologically active planet.

I'm afraid I'm generally not very creative when it comes to names. I've found that mashing words together from Google Translate can help make creative-looking names. Like Gaoithavis. I got Irish for wind and Latin for bird and stuck them together. Torrens Igneous is another example. According to Google Translate, it is Latin for lava. Conveniently, it sounded like a name.

What about my suggestion for the entry? Is it reasonable?

You're far more original than me. Whenever I come up with what I think is a good and original name, it's really just one from somewhere else that I forgot about and suddenly remembered again. A week after I created Gorsik, I realized that that was also the name of a giant in World of Warcraft. I think he gives you daily quests to smash mushrooms.

The continent could stretch to the northern ice cap down to the equator. I didn't comment on your entry because I agreed with everything you said and didn't have much to add.

OK. In that case, I shall work on a name and map. I now realise that I contradicted my self in saying 'I'm not very creative' then citing some reasonable sounding and original names I had devised, albeit with help.

So, let's see what we have.
-Outline for conclusion (Ripper attempts to consume/corrupt world/'sun')
-Place to host RP (roleplayerguild)
-Overall description of setting (magical gas giant to act as the sun with the world a place mostly made of ocean, smaller than earth and with a large single continent containing varied climates)
-Historical setting (similar technology to Outremear. Races are human with magical abilities, dependant on race)
-Entry (portal appears in major city. Keepers and Rogue Constructs swarm in. Do what they like. Portal splits to allow Keepers to go to destinations across the continent as it suits them)

To be decided:
-Names of planet, sun and continent
-Modifications to the rules, if any
-Did imps get teleported to this dimension too? Or do we need something new? (I think we should keep them)
-Basic history of this new planet
-A map
-Intermediate plot devices to maintain engagement
-Final draft of the OP

Here's what I have on the Horsemen and, to a greater extent, the universe.  I'm making a bit of it up as I go along to fill in bits I'm missing.  I was very heavily influenced by the videogame series Darksiders, in which planets are the worlds made by the Creator, who is basically a universal God.  The universe is utterly, unimaginably gargantuan, and the Creator is ever making news worlds and peoples to fill it, so he cannot continuously protect a certain one.  Since the universe must be balanced, the Destroyer also came to be along with the Creator, but was weaker; he could only undo what his brother did.  

The Destroyer eventually found that he didn't have to make things to strike terror and death into the people of the Creator's worlds and shatter their glorious Golden Age, but could instead corrupt existing ones.  At about this time, the Creator decided that he would bring to life a being, Catalyst, with which he would share some of his power and send out into the universe to begin creating its own masterpieces.  Its first task was bringing life to a barren, mostly oceanic planet that it called Outremar.  However, the Destroyer subtly began reaching out to Catalyst, and sharing his own dark powers and designs.  Catalyst, now Cormumag, was consumed and, in disgust, the Creator tried to revoke his powers from Cormumag and end his life.

 However, the Destroyer had anticipated this and laid a trap.  When the Creator tried to end Cormumag, the backlash from the event allowed the Destroyer to use the Creator's power to create such evils as hatred, grudge, sickness, strife, ambition, hunger, demise, and so on.  They spread instantly throughout the universe, infected all living creatures.  Seven beings were formed of these evils and gained consciousness: Conquest, War, Famine, Pestilence, Fury, Strife, and Death.  

The Creator saw this and summoned the Angels, who fought the Destroyer's warriors.  In the ensuing battle, Pestilence, Fury, and Strife were defeated while Conquest, War, and Famine were banished to an extra-planar dimension called the Void and vowed to take their revenge, and Cormumag sealed away inside the very world he had originally been tasked with maintaining.  The Creator and the Destroyer moved on, locked in an endless struggle across the ages.  The Creator made a new apprentice named Sophist, who was tasked with recruiting among the Angels a small but vigilant watch to make sure the evil sowed by Cormumag could never spread, which later became the Antikeepers after the Keepers came to be.  And the rest, as they say, is history.


Our new world could be an entirely new one, and we can pretend the portal at the end of my Dungeon Keepers on the Sporum dumped everyone here instead of on Earth if you like.  Hey, I've got something lucrative to build together some of the things you guys have been saying: what if this was the world Sophist had been building, a land of beauty and plenty and lots of magic courtesy of its watchful guardian...only now, Sophist is dead, and Keepers have appeared.  I'm going off of what you've listed in your post, BB.  Since Sophist had been creating a paradise, we could name the world or continent something like Eden or Elysian, perhaps Rhadaman (playing of Rhadamanthus, the ruler of paradise in Greek Mythology).  I'd agree in that we should keep the imps.  The sun could be Lethe or Sophist, maybe, named after the Antikeeper that made it.  Just throwin' some ideas out there. If the Horsemen came to such a world, they would be very likely to set themselves on destroying it. Perhaps they would rather try to seek out and free their female siblings (Pestilence, Fury, Strife) though?